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Comments:From wHolt - 10/24/06 10:56 AM From Soller - 10/23/06 11:28 PM
From wHolt - 10/17/06 2:18 PM
Interesting, but i dont see why the above are impossible, since each prisoner raised his hand. From Boki - 10/17/06 10:10 AM
This time I will try with conversion of the binary numbers into decimals which gives us number of x's (or persons) in each combination.
From wHolt - 10/15/06 1:42 PM Boki - i cannot follow your logic.
How do the prisoners know if there are 2 or 3 red X's? From Boki - 10/15/06 9:45 AM In this combination (RRR), everyone will see at least one red x, and everyone will raise hand. Since everyone actually sees exactly red x’s, it means that everyone could think “the colour of my x is green” and we can conclude that everyone will have a green x which is impossible. From wHolt - 10/13/06 3:02 PM Boki - you say that there must be at least one green x. From Boki - 10/13/06 9:13 AM We already know that the warden says them to “raise their hand if they
see at least one red X on someone’s forehead” and they all DID raise their hands. It means that all of them see at least one red x. If so, there must be also at least one green x.That means only combinations with at lest one red or green x cold be possible. The combination RGG (with at least one red x; consequently, there could be max 2 green x’s) we can exclude because the prisoner who has red x will see 2 green x’s and could NOT raise hand, but he/she DID raise the hand. The combination GRR (with at least one green x; consequently, there could be max 2 red x’s) is only possible because everyone sees at least one red x, and therefore everyone will raise his/her hand. Since there are most two red x's, the prisoner with green x is able to determine that colour of his/her x must be green. The other two prisoners will see 1 red and 1 green x, and they knew that there is a possibility to have either red or green x on their forehead; so, they were not able to determine what colour of x is on their forehead. From wHolt - 10/12/06 7:45 PM
How can you tell this is possible, but RGR is not? From Boki - 10/12/06 9:10 AM
From wHolt - 10/11/06 2:33 PM Boki - of those you have labeled Possible, which ones can you eliminate by logic - without guessing?
From Boki - 10/10/06 2:34 PM
From wHolt - 10/10/06 11:45 AM
But everyone does see at least one red x From Boki - 10/8/06 3:43 PM
From wHolt - 10/8/06 12:09 PM So how do you eliminate 3 of your 4 remaining possibles? From Boki - 10/7/06 3:42 PM
From wHolt - 10/7/06 2:30 PM
why does the middle prisoner raise his hand if he sees no red X? that would not be allowed.
Remember: prisoners are not allowed to guess! Impossible means that the arrangement could not occur given the facts. Impossible does not mean that you cannot know your color given the arrrangement. From Boki - 10/6/06 11:43 AM
From wHolt - 10/6/06 10:10 AM But if everyone raises his hand, that means everyone sees a red x. From Taz - 9/26/06 5:59 PM
From wHolt - 9/20/06 8:11 PM This page is now closed to newcomers. but a red x means at least one red x. The red x means exactly one red x. Each prisoner only sees one other prisoner. No ! Each prisoner sees the marks on both of the other prisoners. Impossible means unlikely. No! Impossible means you can explain why a specific arrangement is impossible. Empathy means sympathy. No! Empathy means seeing it the way the other guy sees it. Empathy is what the warden is actually testing. There is not enough information to disprove what seems possible. No! A minute goes by is the only clue you need! From TBird - 9/20/06 8:07 AM
i have a red x on my head From Brick - 9/20/06 3:48 AM
From Ivy - 9/20/06 1:37 AM
From Phoenix - 9/19/06 10:00 PM
From Bravo - 9/19/06 10:00 PM I think that there is only one option that allows you to see all the colors. I think it has to be in a triangle. if you have a diagonal line or they are across or up and down they will only see possible one or two out of the three colors. so if they stand in a triangle they can see all the colors G G G not possible not all see green has to be red G G R not possible not all red G R R Not possible not all red G R G Not all possible not all red R G G Not possible not all red R R G Not possible not all red R G R Not possible not all red R R R possible. all can see red From CatsEyes - 9/19/06 9:59 PM
From Pac - 9/19/06 9:44 PM
I'm thinking to deeply into this one, as usual. I'm sure it is something simple and I'm just not seeing it. ARGH!!! The only way that I can think of more impossibilities is if each person can only see one other person's X (as CenterField illustrated), if there is a 4th party that is a prisoner that isn't in the circle, or if there was more information like the prisoners and hats logic problem where there are five hats (2 of one color, 3 of another color). I just feel like there is info missing, but everything I need is probably staring me in the face... From RockClimber - 9/19/06 8:51 PM
The prisoners are standing in a circle. However, prisoner A is facing prisoner B. Prisoner B is facing prisoner C. Prisoner C is facing prisoner A. Therefore, prisoner A can only see what color Prisoner B's X is, Prisoner B can only see what color prisoner C's X is, and prisoner C can only see what color prisoner A's X is. With all three prisoner's having a red X on their forehead, each of them can see this. Prisoner A raises their hand first, then the other two follow because they both each see a red X. I cannot see the color of prisoner C's X, however I can notice that his hand is raised, which means he sees a red X on my head, So the color of my X is red, as is everyone elses. From Draco - 9/19/06 7:31 PM
From HoneyBee - 9/19/06 5:26 PM
From CenterField - 9/19/06 5:11 PM
The only way I can think of that would reduce the four possibilities down to one would be this: The three of us are standing in a circle, all looking toward the inside of the circle, but I am facing #2, #2 is facing #3, and #3 is facing me. If that is the case and we each only see one X and still all raise our hands, then we must all see a red X. So...that would mean I am marked with a red X. The correct possibility would then be R R R. From Bubba - 9/19/06 3:21 PM
now in the instructions it says that i see atleast one red x it does not say that i see two red x's so assuming that at least one of the two prisoners i see has a green x then it is safe to say that i have a red x on my head but if i do not see a green x then it is impossible to say what color x is on my head From GolfGirl - 9/19/06 1:58 PM
From Kolin - 9/19/06 1:28 PM
From SunSport - 9/19/06 11:53 AM
From Soola - 9/19/06 11:38 AM
From Lexiowen - 9/18/06 7:25 PM
From Deuce - 9/18/06 6:05 PM
THESE ARE THE ONLY CASES WHERE HANDS COULD BE RAISED OR NOT. IF EVERYONE IS AS SMART AS I AM AND NOBODY CAN LIE, THEY ARE PLAYING THE ODDS THAT ANOTHER INMATE WILL ANSWER TO EVEN THE ODDS OUT. OR THEY REALIZED THAT THE WARDEN DIDN'T SAY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF NOBODY ANSWERED RIGHT OR WRONG SO EVERYONE IS SILENT.
From CenterField - 9/18/06 4:59 PM ![]() From Trixie - 9/17/06 4:41 PM
From wHolt - 9/17/06 1:32 PM Thanks to Aeneid and JooJoo.
Can you eliminate any other rows? Zonino - 7 points! From JooJoo - 9/17/06 8:57 AM
From Aeneid - 9/16/06 11:31 PM
THERE ARE EIGHT POSSIBLE WAYS THE WARDEN COULD HAVE MARKED THE FOREHEADS. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE WARDEN MARKED ALL THREE PRISONERS WITH A GREEN X BECAUSE THE QUESTION NOTES THAT SAW AT LEAST ONE RED X, SO SCENERIO'S 1 + 8 ARE OUT FOR SURE. SCENERIO'S 1,2,3,8 ARE OUT BECAUSE ALL THREE CAN'T RAISE THEIR HANDS From wHolt - 9/15/06 12:15 AM Interesting ideas, EagleDrew and BassLady.
SkoolGirl - 7 points! From Shanja - 9/14/06 8:22 PM Basslady that makes sense to me, in that could be a solution, but I'm almost afraid that isnt it because Mr. Holt asked if we could narrow it down from 4 to the correct 1. That aside i would agree with you because that would clearly explain why everyone hesitated because no one could have a way of knowing what color their's is.
From BassLady - 9/14/06 7:26 PM OMG!!! They all hesitate in guessing their color because the warden did not tell them that he only used red or green. He only told them to raise their hand if they saw red on the other prisoners forehead. Then he says to guess the color on their forehead. It could have been yellow, blue or purple. The warden did not give them the option of guessing their color to be red or green.
This has to be the answer. Oh yeah!!!From EagleDrew - 9/14/06 3:31 PM
nothing says the warden was truthful on the amount of reds and greens. what if the prisoners or at least one was colorblind! many people who are colorblind can't see a difference between red or green! From wHolt - 9/14/06 2:34 PM David - the Warden marked Either Green or Red does not mean both or neither.
From David - 9/13/06 10:39 AM
From wHolt - 9/13/06 9:36 AM Boki - a 50% chance does not mean impossible. It means 50% possible also.
BassLady & Pringle - you need to prove that two reds and a green are impossible From Pringle - 9/13/06 2:58 AM
From BassLady - 9/12/06 8:42 PM If Prisoner A has a Red X and Prisoner B has a Green X - Then Prisoner C cannot have a green X. Prisoner A would not see a red X. If Prisoner A has a Green X and Prisoner B has a Red X - Then Prisoner C cannot have a green X. Prisoner A would not see a red X. If Prisoner B has a Red X and Prisoner C has a Green X - Then Prisoner A cannot have a green X. Prisoner B would not see a red X. If Prisoner B has a Green X and Prisoner C has a Red X - Then Prisoner A cannot have a green X. Prisoner B would not see a red X. If Prisoner C has a Red X and Prisoner A has Green X - Then Prisoner B cannot have a green X. Prisoner C would not see a red X. If Prisoner C has a Green X and Prisoner A has a Red X - Then Prisoner B cannot have a green X. Prisoner C would not see a red X. Prisoner A, B, and C all three cannot have a green X. No one would see a red X. Now I have proved 7 theories cannot be true because with each theory, one of the 3 cannot see a red X. From Boki - 9/12/06 2:32 PM
From wHolt - 9/12/06 1:36 PM CLARIFICATION! From BassLady - 9/12/06 12:29 PM
From Fro - 9/11/06 9:58 PM
From Poovey - 9/11/06 6:48 PM
From wHolt - 9/11/06 10:56 AM Taurus - why are rows 1 and 5 possible, but not row 2? Nice job, Capricorn. 7 points! From Bigfoot - 9/10/06 6:53 PM
From Harkar - 9/10/06 5:38 PM
From Taurus - 9/10/06 11:11 AM
Well, it's obvious that there will be at least 2 people marked with a red X or else all three of us couldn't raise our hands. Any scenario where there are 2 green Xs one of the cellmates would not see a red. But if there are only 2 red x's and 1 green, the two people that would see one red and one green would know that theirs is red (because there has to be at least 2 red x's for all hands to be raised). They would answer immediately. But since we all just stood around not saying anything, we all saw 2 red x's and wouldn't know the color on our forehead- because we didn't answer immediately. Therefore my head is marked with a red x. From Tiger - 9/10/06 12:50 AM
I think the answer is everyone has a red X, I just don't know how to prove it.
From wHolt - 9/9/06 9:49 PM Soller- sorry cannot picture what you did. Missing a piece of the explanation.
From Soller - 9/9/06 2:58 PM Originally I got 4 possibles and 4 impossibles, but I figured if there was a circle on the ground and the prisoners were standing inside the circle where 2 prisoners are facing one which would leave only one possible solution. From wHolt - 9/9/06 2:34 PM Assume that each prisoner can see the marks on the other two prisoners.
From SuperDuke - 9/8/06 9:11 PM Soller, I am confused by your chart. If they are standing in a circle looking at each other that means each prisoner see's the other TWO prisoners. I must disagree with some of your statements on your chart because of this. From Butterfly - 9/8/06 7:48 PM
From Soller - 9/8/06 6:11 PM
From wHolt - 9/8/06 11:00 AM Who can use logic to go beyond the 4 row limit? Aeneid - which of your reasons explain the impossible? From DirtyBird - 9/7/06 7:03 PM
From Melewen - 9/7/06 5:27 PM
From wHolt - 9/7/06 11:21 AM There seems a consensus that there are 8 arrangements to consider.
Most of you have eliminated some of them with basic logic. But how many of you can eliminate all except one of your rows? That may require a bit more logic, and a dash of empathy, which is not the same as sympathy. No guessing allowed, of course... From SuperDuke - 9/7/06 9:23 AM I have to give Mr. Holt his dibs here. You have to really be paying attention. If you'll notice he says he will award 7 points for 7 impossibles. Thats the reason I kept grinding on this one till...... EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From Slick - 9/7/06 8:47 AM
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Soller - I dont understand this explanation. If prisoner A speaks correctly, he wont die.
But he wont take a chance if he does not know for sure.